After my recent post, I had a few requests for directions to Dutton Fields, and answer them all at one time now.
There is a service road south of Dutton immediately east of Lapeer (M-24) behind two pizza places in a mini-mall. If you are coming up (north on) Lapeer from I-75, shortly after the Palace, and just before Dutton Road itself, you will see a sign pointing off to Dutton on your right. This goes to the service road. (Or you can proceed to the corner, and turn right on Dutton, then take the first right).
The area of interest is on the side of the street opposite the block wall. At present, I only seeded the driveway area opposite from and just north of the northern end of the wall, but I think I will try a tad southerly next time, but still opposite the wall. (I do note I only go there occasionally as an opportunistic fair-weather winter car birder so will not promise any attractants).
As I noted in my blog, the area has been cleaned up since the last couple of years.
I had one thought after my last visit. I seeded the same area as in the past two winters – the area by the “driveway” that goes down the hill. (And, no, I never drove down there – it is, after all, private property, albeit seemingly abandoned … besides, now it looks very muddy and slippery and highly NOT recommended). The birds seemed to like this driveway area for some reason. And still do! Those little Horned Larks can sure move their feet to run up the driveway! Just try to keep the camera on them when they are moving! I think they really like running! They seem to only fly when spooked or to talk birdie things with each other away from the “Ground of Silence”. But I am thinking; now with less hiding places, maybe it is better to seed a tad farther south where there is still a bit of weed remnants along the edge of the drop-off. I’ll try it next time. Maybe the birds can hang out over the drop-off and pop up for seeds? When I saw the Snow Buntings on my first visit this year, there were several below the drop-off and only a couple in sight from the road, and they were along the edge.
BTW, when the birds do flee/fly/(fo fum…), in 2011 they often went into the huge open field away from the road, and would often return within about 15 minutes.
I want to thank Ed Lewandowski who had the foresight to start this whole special place for winter birding in 2011! Also, I want to acknowledge Kim Smith for her great blog about her recent experience there. http://natureismytherapy.com/2013/01/17/the-kestrel-and-i-alone-in-a-crowd/ This woman can really write! And, yes, a Kestrel is a definite possibility. I shot my life bird there a couple of years ago.
A prior post from 2011 when things were hopping - or should I say -flapping:
http://drbobsbirdblog.blogspot.com/2011_01_01_archive.html
In re-reading my cited blog, I remembered I saw few Buntings originally (like recently), but on successive visits there were many. One can only hope for a repeat if seeds are there. The current timing is the same. One never knows …
Hey! It probably would not hurt to toss out a few handfuls of seeds to your objects of desire … then check back. Please notify me if a flock of Buntings, or especially Longspurs, pop up. I just might have to pass on a nap and grab my camera!
BTW, I really appreciate the help of my friend and mentor Jerry Jourdan for telling me how to get photos into my last blog!!! I updated it. http://drbobsbirdblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/forget-no-here-is-yes-snow-buntings-and.html
It is now SO much nicer to read than having to click on dropped URLs! Yes, I had to get into the HTML code thing, but it was really easy. Thanks Jerry!!! (And … I know most of you did not click on the URLs to see pics! My lovely wife Judy was just at my computer and said “that is a photo of you I took”. Yes – she had looked at my blog but did not click on the URLs! I totally understand!)
Friday, January 18, 2013
Wednesday, January 16, 2013
Forget "No". Here is "Yes"! Snow Buntings and Horned Larks in Oakland County
On my last blog I mentioned several places where we failed to see birds we might have expected. Here is a "ramble" about one place that has now produced!
"Dutton Fields" (Dutton and Lapeer Roads in Oakland County - off the service drive connecting the two) made for some incredible winter birding a couple of years ago. My friend Ed Lewandowski had seeded the basically barren area in the same place (Geez, Ed really knows his local areas!!!) and drew in a host (flocks!!!) of Snow Buntings, Horned Larks, and even a few Lapland Longspurs. He posted the location and his sightings to the se-Mich birders list. It was an amazing year at this place, and drew in dozens of birders. We enjoyed large flocks of Snow Buntings to join the normally present Horned Larks! I really shot some good pics of Snow Buntings in flight, as well as on the ground. Snow Buntings and Lapland Longspurs were "lifers"!
(... In retrospect, I think it might have been Jan Olesen - now in Florida - who had reported Horned Larks across the street by the hotel where we saw out first ever Horned Lark the year before Ed even seeded Dutton- cool! Thanks Jan!). Before now, nothing there this year or last ...
Last year with the weird winter and just generally my non-motivation, not much to report.
So, I thought I would try again. I just posted that I had visited this spot a couple of days ago. I saw nothing! I had hoped the Horned Larks would be there for my "year bird",but nothing! It was interesting that all the previously-present heavy machinery had disappeared along with the company trailers. And, all of the rubble had also been removed! I suspected they might want to sell the site and had cleaned it up. They leveled much of the area within the immediate vicinity of the road to clean it up even removing most of the nearby stubble... I had few hopes.
OK. Well, anyway I went there and "seeded" it on Friday (2013-01-11). No birds. Hey! You can get cheap bird feed at Aco Hardware on sale. For maybe $5 per bag you can get 20 pounds! Not the "oilers" people like for their feeders, and with lots of crushed corn and stuff, but interestingly enough, just the stuff lots of winter birds like.
BTW, I even started mixing it in with the mostly pure "oilers" I was putting on my deck, and my American Tree Sparrows and Northern Juncoes have reappeared after a two week absence. Coincidence? How would I know - my "experiment" was totally without a "control group", but I like it and it is cheap!
Anyway - back to the story ...
For y'all who remember Dutton a couple of years ago, I offer a couple of pics Judy took of me today. Now it looks like an abandoned field. It does not look like much, but watch for flights of fluttering frivolous fantasies!
http://www.pbase.com/image/148361619
http://www.pbase.com/doctorbass/image/148361622
I went back yesterday out of curiosity. I expected nothing after only one day. But I found Snow Buntings!!! Geez!!! "If you seed it they will come"!!! (Reminds me of a movie ...!) And yes, grammatically, it also fascinates me - "I seed it", not "I saw it". With chuckles, I wonder that some kids today might not understand ... :) (... this is a Facebook thing for making a "happy face"... I suspect it will not work here ...) I seed it and they came!!!
To prove it, I offer the Snow Buntings:
http://www.pbase.com/doctorbass/image/148361625
http://www.pbase.com/doctorbass/image/148361624
Pure luck and timing I suspect. I was there about 2:30 - 3:00 pm. I recorded 10 Snow Buntings and 8-10 Horned Larks.
Judy and I went back today - again about 2:30 - 3:00 pm. All we saw were Horned Larks (6), but they were not as spooky as Snow Buntings and allowed me to get out of the car - moving slowly! - to get a pic or two.Geez! It was so windy! But fortunately the bright sun allowed some pics that even I with advanced age and being buffeting by winds could capture.
http://www.pbase.com/doctorbass/image/148361626
YES! I not only shot my Horned Larks, but was lucky enough to get the Snow Buntings yesterday!!! Two great species for Oakland County and my "year list". Better than that, I suspect that the birds know another "fast food place" to include in their travels, so I suspect and hope they will tell their "birdie friends"! Maybe we will have another great year of special winter birds!
I can almost guarantee Horned Larks (incredibly beautiful birds!!!) on a visit, but at present, I think you will need some good luck to see the Snow Buntings. Try hanging out for a half-hour or more and rub your good luck charm.
Everyone - please tell me (direct e-mail or on the se-Mich birder's list) your experiences there! Especially if the Lapland Longspurs join the flock!!!
Good birding y'all!!!
- "Dr. Bob"
"Dutton Fields" (Dutton and Lapeer Roads in Oakland County - off the service drive connecting the two) made for some incredible winter birding a couple of years ago. My friend Ed Lewandowski had seeded the basically barren area in the same place (Geez, Ed really knows his local areas!!!) and drew in a host (flocks!!!) of Snow Buntings, Horned Larks, and even a few Lapland Longspurs. He posted the location and his sightings to the se-Mich birders list. It was an amazing year at this place, and drew in dozens of birders. We enjoyed large flocks of Snow Buntings to join the normally present Horned Larks! I really shot some good pics of Snow Buntings in flight, as well as on the ground. Snow Buntings and Lapland Longspurs were "lifers"!
(... In retrospect, I think it might have been Jan Olesen - now in Florida - who had reported Horned Larks across the street by the hotel where we saw out first ever Horned Lark the year before Ed even seeded Dutton- cool! Thanks Jan!). Before now, nothing there this year or last ...
Last year with the weird winter and just generally my non-motivation, not much to report.
So, I thought I would try again. I just posted that I had visited this spot a couple of days ago. I saw nothing! I had hoped the Horned Larks would be there for my "year bird",but nothing! It was interesting that all the previously-present heavy machinery had disappeared along with the company trailers. And, all of the rubble had also been removed! I suspected they might want to sell the site and had cleaned it up. They leveled much of the area within the immediate vicinity of the road to clean it up even removing most of the nearby stubble... I had few hopes.
OK. Well, anyway I went there and "seeded" it on Friday (2013-01-11). No birds. Hey! You can get cheap bird feed at Aco Hardware on sale. For maybe $5 per bag you can get 20 pounds! Not the "oilers" people like for their feeders, and with lots of crushed corn and stuff, but interestingly enough, just the stuff lots of winter birds like.
BTW, I even started mixing it in with the mostly pure "oilers" I was putting on my deck, and my American Tree Sparrows and Northern Juncoes have reappeared after a two week absence. Coincidence? How would I know - my "experiment" was totally without a "control group", but I like it and it is cheap!
Anyway - back to the story ...
For y'all who remember Dutton a couple of years ago, I offer a couple of pics Judy took of me today. Now it looks like an abandoned field. It does not look like much, but watch for flights of fluttering frivolous fantasies!
http://www.pbase.com/doctorbass/image/148361622
I went back yesterday out of curiosity. I expected nothing after only one day. But I found Snow Buntings!!! Geez!!! "If you seed it they will come"!!! (Reminds me of a movie ...!) And yes, grammatically, it also fascinates me - "I seed it", not "I saw it". With chuckles, I wonder that some kids today might not understand ... :) (... this is a Facebook thing for making a "happy face"... I suspect it will not work here ...) I seed it and they came!!!
To prove it, I offer the Snow Buntings:
http://www.pbase.com/doctorbass/image/148361624
Pure luck and timing I suspect. I was there about 2:30 - 3:00 pm. I recorded 10 Snow Buntings and 8-10 Horned Larks.
Judy and I went back today - again about 2:30 - 3:00 pm. All we saw were Horned Larks (6), but they were not as spooky as Snow Buntings and allowed me to get out of the car - moving slowly! - to get a pic or two.Geez! It was so windy! But fortunately the bright sun allowed some pics that even I with advanced age and being buffeting by winds could capture.
YES! I not only shot my Horned Larks, but was lucky enough to get the Snow Buntings yesterday!!! Two great species for Oakland County and my "year list". Better than that, I suspect that the birds know another "fast food place" to include in their travels, so I suspect and hope they will tell their "birdie friends"! Maybe we will have another great year of special winter birds!
I can almost guarantee Horned Larks (incredibly beautiful birds!!!) on a visit, but at present, I think you will need some good luck to see the Snow Buntings. Try hanging out for a half-hour or more and rub your good luck charm.
Everyone - please tell me (direct e-mail or on the se-Mich birder's list) your experiences there! Especially if the Lapland Longspurs join the flock!!!
Good birding y'all!!!
- "Dr. Bob"
Monday, January 14, 2013
No, no, no, no ... and, Yes: a "Tale of Two Fishers"
NO: On Thursday, Judy and I went to Port Huron to get our Long-tailed Ducks for the year. It was a very pleasant sunny day at circa 40 degrees with no wind. Too pleasant! Yes, we did get the long-tails, but they were on the Canadian side (a few) or out in Lake Huron. There was NO ice on the river or even visible on the lake from there. No other birds than geese, mallards, and gulls. Too nice!
NO: On Friday, we went to Dutton Fields where I suspected to at least document a Horned Lark for the year. The area along the road was totally empty! All of the heavy equipment was gone! All of the rubble piles and stuff the birds used to use as temporary sitting sites were gone! All of the weeds near the road were gone! The entire place was cleaned out and had been graded/flattened near the road. Maybe they intend to sell it? Anyway, I “seeded it” as planned, but without dinky weeds as in past years, I doubt it will draw much. Only bird was a Turkey Vulture overhead.
NO: On Saturday, we went to Ray Twp. (Broughton Rd. and 26 Mile) to see the birds reported on the list. Nothing but crows.
NO: Then we went to Inwood Rd to catch the shrike. Nothing! However the washboard road is much better than in the summer because the constant traffic has filled in the ruts from the farm equipment…
Then, we washed the car.
This lovely weather was “for the birds” – NOT! The weather was for us fair weather birders! Moral – get out when weather is bad, or immediately after someone reports the birds! Darn birdies fly!
On Sunday, we planned to stay home. Judy took her morning walk and came home to tell me of a Belted Kingfisher working the small pond at the entrance to Streamwood. YES!
I put up pics on PBase: http://www.pbase.com/doctorbass/image/148334648
I call my pic a “Tale of Two Fishers”, but it could have just as well been a tale of two birders. Do “previous” to see a better pic by Judy. YES!
NO: On Friday, we went to Dutton Fields where I suspected to at least document a Horned Lark for the year. The area along the road was totally empty! All of the heavy equipment was gone! All of the rubble piles and stuff the birds used to use as temporary sitting sites were gone! All of the weeds near the road were gone! The entire place was cleaned out and had been graded/flattened near the road. Maybe they intend to sell it? Anyway, I “seeded it” as planned, but without dinky weeds as in past years, I doubt it will draw much. Only bird was a Turkey Vulture overhead.
NO: On Saturday, we went to Ray Twp. (Broughton Rd. and 26 Mile) to see the birds reported on the list. Nothing but crows.
NO: Then we went to Inwood Rd to catch the shrike. Nothing! However the washboard road is much better than in the summer because the constant traffic has filled in the ruts from the farm equipment…
Then, we washed the car.
This lovely weather was “for the birds” – NOT! The weather was for us fair weather birders! Moral – get out when weather is bad, or immediately after someone reports the birds! Darn birdies fly!
On Sunday, we planned to stay home. Judy took her morning walk and came home to tell me of a Belted Kingfisher working the small pond at the entrance to Streamwood. YES!
I put up pics on PBase: http://www.pbase.com/doctorbass/image/148334648
I call my pic a “Tale of Two Fishers”, but it could have just as well been a tale of two birders. Do “previous” to see a better pic by Judy. YES!
Tuesday, January 8, 2013
Exciting birth of an e-book on birding
Last year during the Biggest Week in America Birding I had the pleasure to meet Gunnar Engblom at the first Meet and Greet in Ohio for Facebook Ohio birding friends. I have been following him on FB ever since. He is Swedish, leading birding tours in Peru, yet very knowledgeable as a worldwide birder, and obviously has been birding in our area.
On FB he has just started posting about a book he is writing. It will be available for free on the internet. It is a very different approach to birding. Basically it acknowledges that many (maybe now, most???) of us get into birding differently in this digital age that in older days. It sure rings true to me! I started birding by taking pics and wondering what I shot. After quite awhile of sharing pics locally in my neighborhood, a neighbor told me she had a relative who was into birding, and turned me onto the University of Michigan list serv. My life changed forever!!! All the subscribers have been instrumental in my rebirth as a birder!
ref: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bbowman/birds/birders_FAQ.html (Thanks again, Bruce Bowman for such a wonderful accepting forum!!!)
Check out the link to Gunnar's book:
http://birding.com.co/birding-101-starts-now/
Gunnar lists the chapter headings for now. Fascinating! Makes sense!
Birds are universal. Birding is universal!
I truly suspect this e-book might draw many new birders into our passion! Indeed, I think we will all learn from it if Gunnar gets the support I think he will!
I would appreciate seeing comments.
Yeah, I could have waited until the book was e-published to send out a note, but I really believe that we in Michigan are so far ahead of many other places for sharing birding experience that I wanted some of our advanced birders to have a chance to input or comment on this e-book.
And yes, I started with pics, but now have a good pair of binocs – and even a cheap scope – and damn near all the local field guides and even more specialized books - so it really rings true for me. I am always learning! And it all started with “whazzat bird?”!!!
Good birding in 2013!!!
On FB he has just started posting about a book he is writing. It will be available for free on the internet. It is a very different approach to birding. Basically it acknowledges that many (maybe now, most???) of us get into birding differently in this digital age that in older days. It sure rings true to me! I started birding by taking pics and wondering what I shot. After quite awhile of sharing pics locally in my neighborhood, a neighbor told me she had a relative who was into birding, and turned me onto the University of Michigan list serv. My life changed forever!!! All the subscribers have been instrumental in my rebirth as a birder!
ref: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bbowman/birds/birders_FAQ.html (Thanks again, Bruce Bowman for such a wonderful accepting forum!!!)
Check out the link to Gunnar's book:
http://birding.com.co/birding-101-starts-now/
Gunnar lists the chapter headings for now. Fascinating! Makes sense!
Birds are universal. Birding is universal!
I truly suspect this e-book might draw many new birders into our passion! Indeed, I think we will all learn from it if Gunnar gets the support I think he will!
I would appreciate seeing comments.
Yeah, I could have waited until the book was e-published to send out a note, but I really believe that we in Michigan are so far ahead of many other places for sharing birding experience that I wanted some of our advanced birders to have a chance to input or comment on this e-book.
And yes, I started with pics, but now have a good pair of binocs – and even a cheap scope – and damn near all the local field guides and even more specialized books - so it really rings true for me. I am always learning! And it all started with “whazzat bird?”!!!
Good birding in 2013!!!
Remiss
It is now another new year! I am quite remiss in that I stopped my blog mid-year in 2012. It is not that I stopped birding or enjoying the outdoors, I just had other things that needed attention. I will try harder this 2013 year ...
Friday, September 21, 2012
Binocs for kids and seniors - not so different ...
I was going to reply just to the mich birders list, but wanted to share with a wider audience. So I cut the whole thing out and post it here and just left a ref posted on the birders list. Heck, it is about time I said something on my blog!
_______
refer to the thread posted by Bryn on Friday, September 21, 2012 2:05 PM for many suggestions and comments on bonocs for kids in reply to a posting earlier by another mich birder:
(Well I just tried it, but it looks like crap because of the list serv not handling any punctuation, so I am not referencing it. It looks fine as a post in e-mail! Anyway, I put the original notes at the base of my article here - removing all names. There were more great comments on the list serv, but this has the most.)
However, I highly recommend the list serv! Unlike some state sites, they even allow "rambles such as this - if on topic! Besides the e-mail stuff, be sure to check out the photo-sharing page and especially check out the HUGE list of references and URLs compiled by the amazing Brice Bowman!!!
See http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bbowman/birds/birders_FAQ.html to learn more about mich birders!
_________
MY POST TONIGHT:
I am glad Bryn kept the thread. Yes I know it is longer, but it is so much easier to reply than with bits and pieces.
I think this is really important!!! But what I want to add is a note about getting seniors into birding.
Seniors – like kids – often have diminished capacities for holding weights aloft for long so we need something light. And, if we are not already interested in birds, we gotta have something easily visible that might stick around for awhile so we can focus in it! The birds gotta get our attention and make us want to see and learn more. Not so different, I think!!!
I know for sure the weight thing is huge! I have two older binocs (1970s): 10x50 and 7x35. I just gave up on the 50s – heavy – a backup pair in car! I now use the 35s at my kitchen table in the mornings.
I have had a decent pair (not most expensive – ca. $250) for birding. They focus close – like for b’flies and d’flies which I love as flappy things because I am still a kid – and are decent for most birding. Yet, at Pte. Mouillee for Hawk Fest, even with very specific directions as to location of birds, I could not even see the “dots”! Now I do have to account for the fact that my eyes are older, and I was only using 8x (I no longer can hold 10x), but wonder about whether better optics would have helped. On the other hand, the “kids” (maybe 50 and younger) might have had 10x? But several other birders (mostly elderly) admitted they could not see them either.
But back to the question …
My wonderful wife and faithful companion Judy got into birding because I did. I got into birding because as a re-born photographer, I shot birds and wanted to know their names. Yes, I was trained as a biologist, but after over 25 years in a cubicle, I mostly had forgotten the joys of photography and Nature (well, exaggerating quite a bit here …), and certainly never knew mid-west birds.
Even with decent zoom cams, Judy always focused on bigger birds (geese, ducks, herons, etc.). She tries to get the smaller birds, but they move and the cam autofocus makes it hard. Yet, she does get great pics that often surpass mine! Cool!
I tried to get Judy to use my binocs on several occasions, but I think she did not want to deprive me of them for long. So, I finally bought her a personal pair. Now she really looks like a birder with binocs and cam. Cool!
The other fact is that she never really had a chance to “practice” with the binocs. It really takes some time to set the distance between eyes for binocular vision, and it takes even more time to learn to focus – especially with moving birds! And it is very frustrating when the darn bird does not sit there long enough to get the focus!!! Big, slow birds are better!!!
Hey! It works for me- both for viewing and photography!!!
I went thru a dilemma as to which binocs I could get at a reasonable price for Judy. Certainly price was my first consideration! - Would she use them and for how long? It ended up that as we were reloading feeder seed at WBU in Rochester Hills, and I asked to try all of the binocs. I settled on Eagle Optics 8x25 Triumph. I think it was less than $100 at the time – possibly closeout. I also think it has a lifetime guarantee! Light and decent! Judy had problems in the beginning (as noted before, it takes learning), but she really likes and uses them now!
There are many cheaper binocs out there, but the questions are really not about what WE want to share, but more about interest. Yes, the weight is important, and yes, the optics will become more important with use, but it really becomes a matter of interest.
I remember my first uses of binocs – the teacher wanted us to make a field book about bird behavior. Heck, I could never even put my binocs on the bird before it flew off! And teacher forgot the first thing about birding – he never really taught us any bird ID features! Sure, ecology and behavior is important, but my field notes of “bird flew from bush into tree” were ridiculous. Boring! Forget birds! Bad teacher! Fifty years later I am trying to learn birds! And, as a well-trained biologist by many others, I probably understand more than most birders that ID is not the main contribution I can make! Yet, you gotta start with taxonomy – and for that you need good optics and good field guides! And – I might say – lots of help from your birding friends!!!
So, consider the audience! First is interest! That takes a good teacher (You!). Then consider weight and possible longevity of interest. Some toys only have short half-lives. Again, it is interest (You!). As experience grows, and the larger birds become smaller birds, maybe it will be a time for an upgrade. But, wait and see!
"Dr. Bob" Setzer
Streamwood Estates, Rochester Hills (Crooks & Hamlin), Oakland County
_________
THREAD:
From: Bryn Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 2:05 PM
To: birders@umich.edu
Subject: [birders] Re: binoculars for young children
From my perspective, just as or more important than bins are field guides (birds, insects, reptiles, etc...). My girls love thumbing through them and really like when I show them what we saw/are seeing. They're starting to understand the range maps and some of the symbols in one of their guides. By far the most important thing, though, and I think most people would agree with me, is just taking them outside and spending the time with them. They will pick up on your enthusiasm and grow fond memories of just going out on adventures.
Other excursion items (that work for us):
Camera (to document the memories with my kids and to photograph the creatures we see so we can go home and share them with "Mama")
Field guides (if we see a turtle, the girls have fun looking at the different turtle pictures to see if they can identify which one it is)--the books mean more to them back home when they know they are full of real things that they saw or could potentially see on future excursions
From: curt
Indeed! Kalila LOVES going dragonfly hunting, or butterfly, but dragons are easier to catch, and much less delicate.
Outdoor excursion items:
1. snacks and water
2. clothes that love mud
3. something to put cool stuff in (a bag or box, or old soda cup)
4. net
5. yes, pink is good.
From: Bryn
A few things from my perspective: When I take my 4-year olds out, we bring their pink bins. They are not very good, but they like "being official" and having them. They do enjoy finding big things in them and finding things to them is more important than identifying important characteristics. A scope works great at this age. Most of our excursions are general nature trips. We have bins, but we also have insect collecting gear, etc... I never have them try to see flitting passerines through their bins. Their bins are for them to experiment with and to try to look at things like herons. (They also like looking through the "wrong" end just as much.)
From: John
At the risk of being being seen as someone desperately trying to save face in the midst of all these great examples of hands-on experience directly countering my point...
I still think a good option is to acquire a decent spare binocular to have handy for those times when lending is appropriate.
But I especially like Dea's and Curt's advice regarding birding adventures with young children. More important to just get out and have an adventure than worry if you've got the right equipment.
From Fred:
Right on Curt! Kids will be kids and a happy kid is one who discovers how to have fun on their own. Like Adam Ant said in their song…”It’s so sad… when you’re young… to be told…you’re having fun”. I’ve seen way too many people buy the most expensive stuff for kids and then get all shocked and depressed when “junior” decides he’d rather play with the box the thing came in! I’m speaking in general of course and there is always room for the exceptional “budding” birder but childhood interests change too frequently to warrant the expense.
Buying a child a $500 bow does not necessarily make a world-class archer…I wonder how much Tiger’s dad spent on Tiger’s first set of clubs? Or…Eddie Van Halen’s first guitar? Hmmm
From: curt
I recall taking my first daughter out to Point Mouille in the winter (back in my survey days when I could drive there), and very excitedly getting a Snowy Owl in the scope and showing her. I had the impression she thought she was looking at a picture of some kind. If she couldn't see the bird with the naked eye, it was just too abstract. She had no excitement what-so-ever. I'm not sure if she was 3 or 4 at the time though. I know that my current 4 year old loves binoculars, but generally prefers to look through them backwards. Its much funnier that way. I am on the market for bins for her, I think, but I believe I will go for something like 4X and as wide angle and bright as possible. Then, if she sees a Robin or a Blue Jay, (birds she can identify) in the yard and wants to show me, she'll actually be able to do it herself.
I have never found it worthwhile to struggle to show a young kid a bird. My older daughters have seen so many cool birds, but they remember pretty much only the birds they discovered themselves. They do remember the trips. My 17 year old daughter remembers being small and having me carry her to the van in her jammies at 5 in the morning for a drive to Sarnia in an October storm, still remembers the Tim Hortons. She has no recollection of the adult Sabine's Gull, or the Pomarine Jaeger. To a young kid a mallard and a King eider are exactly the same thing: a duck, except a Mallard is better because they can know it.
For the most part, my kids like to go birding with me, they love nature and the outdoors, but they don't give a crap about identifying birds.
Just my 2 cents
From: Deaver
My experience with 3rd and 4th graders (walking through the Arb, all with very small field of view binoculars that they could hold and that fit them and were light-weight enough to carry easily) is that they were far more excited just being outside and seeing birds that you can see without binoculars (hawks,cranes, vultures, herons, ducks, large flocks of Cedar Waxwings and woodpeckers, etc) than they were about focusing binoculars on a fast moving small passerine. Probably because the binoculars were not too good and had such a small field of view. Though I cannot put my hands on Laura Erickson's book about birding with kids at this moment, I think that she says that she doesn't usually use binoculars with very young "birders". But kids want binoculars around their neck if you have them so get something light and that you won't feel bad if they get used infrequently. Young children will pick up on your excitement about birds and that will drive their interest the most. Almost any article about finding the right binoculars talks about "fit" and for kids, that is very small but also constantly changing as they grow. What I wouldn't do is spend lots of money. Optics are not the prime thing. For great close up views get a step stool for your scope when you are using it so you and your young birding companion can look through it without constant height readjustment or achy back on your part. Young kids can hop up faster than most of us can bend down and with good instruction can learn how to look thru a scope eyepiece.
In another article by Laura Erickson, she talks about good cheap binoculars for older kids and first time adult birders. Here is her cheapest suggestion. The article was written in 2008, but it will give you an idea ...
Bushnell NatureView Birder 8x40 -- $69.95
Reasonable price and light weight make this model a great choice for beginners, and the price and quality of optics make it a popular choice for groups. In fact, it is one of the only binoculars in this price range with good optics. It's great to pass out on field trips to children and casual wildlife viewers. The Tucson Audubon Nature Shop has sold it in quantity to a tour leader in the Grand Canyon and also to a world-famous health resort in Tucson.
I suspect others out there have some personal experience with kids and grandkids and I look forward to hearing what they have to say.
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refer to the thread posted by Bryn on Friday, September 21, 2012 2:05 PM for many suggestions and comments on bonocs for kids in reply to a posting earlier by another mich birder:
(Well I just tried it, but it looks like crap because of the list serv not handling any punctuation, so I am not referencing it. It looks fine as a post in e-mail! Anyway, I put the original notes at the base of my article here - removing all names. There were more great comments on the list serv, but this has the most.)
However, I highly recommend the list serv! Unlike some state sites, they even allow "rambles such as this - if on topic! Besides the e-mail stuff, be sure to check out the photo-sharing page and especially check out the HUGE list of references and URLs compiled by the amazing Brice Bowman!!!
See http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bbowman/birds/birders_FAQ.html to learn more about mich birders!
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MY POST TONIGHT:
I am glad Bryn kept the thread. Yes I know it is longer, but it is so much easier to reply than with bits and pieces.
I think this is really important!!! But what I want to add is a note about getting seniors into birding.
Seniors – like kids – often have diminished capacities for holding weights aloft for long so we need something light. And, if we are not already interested in birds, we gotta have something easily visible that might stick around for awhile so we can focus in it! The birds gotta get our attention and make us want to see and learn more. Not so different, I think!!!
I know for sure the weight thing is huge! I have two older binocs (1970s): 10x50 and 7x35. I just gave up on the 50s – heavy – a backup pair in car! I now use the 35s at my kitchen table in the mornings.
I have had a decent pair (not most expensive – ca. $250) for birding. They focus close – like for b’flies and d’flies which I love as flappy things because I am still a kid – and are decent for most birding. Yet, at Pte. Mouillee for Hawk Fest, even with very specific directions as to location of birds, I could not even see the “dots”! Now I do have to account for the fact that my eyes are older, and I was only using 8x (I no longer can hold 10x), but wonder about whether better optics would have helped. On the other hand, the “kids” (maybe 50 and younger) might have had 10x? But several other birders (mostly elderly) admitted they could not see them either.
But back to the question …
My wonderful wife and faithful companion Judy got into birding because I did. I got into birding because as a re-born photographer, I shot birds and wanted to know their names. Yes, I was trained as a biologist, but after over 25 years in a cubicle, I mostly had forgotten the joys of photography and Nature (well, exaggerating quite a bit here …), and certainly never knew mid-west birds.
Even with decent zoom cams, Judy always focused on bigger birds (geese, ducks, herons, etc.). She tries to get the smaller birds, but they move and the cam autofocus makes it hard. Yet, she does get great pics that often surpass mine! Cool!
I tried to get Judy to use my binocs on several occasions, but I think she did not want to deprive me of them for long. So, I finally bought her a personal pair. Now she really looks like a birder with binocs and cam. Cool!
The other fact is that she never really had a chance to “practice” with the binocs. It really takes some time to set the distance between eyes for binocular vision, and it takes even more time to learn to focus – especially with moving birds! And it is very frustrating when the darn bird does not sit there long enough to get the focus!!! Big, slow birds are better!!!
Hey! It works for me- both for viewing and photography!!!
I went thru a dilemma as to which binocs I could get at a reasonable price for Judy. Certainly price was my first consideration! - Would she use them and for how long? It ended up that as we were reloading feeder seed at WBU in Rochester Hills, and I asked to try all of the binocs. I settled on Eagle Optics 8x25 Triumph. I think it was less than $100 at the time – possibly closeout. I also think it has a lifetime guarantee! Light and decent! Judy had problems in the beginning (as noted before, it takes learning), but she really likes and uses them now!
There are many cheaper binocs out there, but the questions are really not about what WE want to share, but more about interest. Yes, the weight is important, and yes, the optics will become more important with use, but it really becomes a matter of interest.
I remember my first uses of binocs – the teacher wanted us to make a field book about bird behavior. Heck, I could never even put my binocs on the bird before it flew off! And teacher forgot the first thing about birding – he never really taught us any bird ID features! Sure, ecology and behavior is important, but my field notes of “bird flew from bush into tree” were ridiculous. Boring! Forget birds! Bad teacher! Fifty years later I am trying to learn birds! And, as a well-trained biologist by many others, I probably understand more than most birders that ID is not the main contribution I can make! Yet, you gotta start with taxonomy – and for that you need good optics and good field guides! And – I might say – lots of help from your birding friends!!!
So, consider the audience! First is interest! That takes a good teacher (You!). Then consider weight and possible longevity of interest. Some toys only have short half-lives. Again, it is interest (You!). As experience grows, and the larger birds become smaller birds, maybe it will be a time for an upgrade. But, wait and see!
"Dr. Bob" Setzer
Streamwood Estates, Rochester Hills (Crooks & Hamlin), Oakland County
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THREAD:
From: Bryn Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 2:05 PM
To: birders@umich.edu
Subject: [birders] Re: binoculars for young children
From my perspective, just as or more important than bins are field guides (birds, insects, reptiles, etc...). My girls love thumbing through them and really like when I show them what we saw/are seeing. They're starting to understand the range maps and some of the symbols in one of their guides. By far the most important thing, though, and I think most people would agree with me, is just taking them outside and spending the time with them. They will pick up on your enthusiasm and grow fond memories of just going out on adventures.
Other excursion items (that work for us):
Camera (to document the memories with my kids and to photograph the creatures we see so we can go home and share them with "Mama")
Field guides (if we see a turtle, the girls have fun looking at the different turtle pictures to see if they can identify which one it is)--the books mean more to them back home when they know they are full of real things that they saw or could potentially see on future excursions
From: curt
Indeed! Kalila LOVES going dragonfly hunting, or butterfly, but dragons are easier to catch, and much less delicate.
Outdoor excursion items:
1. snacks and water
2. clothes that love mud
3. something to put cool stuff in (a bag or box, or old soda cup)
4. net
5. yes, pink is good.
From: Bryn
A few things from my perspective: When I take my 4-year olds out, we bring their pink bins. They are not very good, but they like "being official" and having them. They do enjoy finding big things in them and finding things to them is more important than identifying important characteristics. A scope works great at this age. Most of our excursions are general nature trips. We have bins, but we also have insect collecting gear, etc... I never have them try to see flitting passerines through their bins. Their bins are for them to experiment with and to try to look at things like herons. (They also like looking through the "wrong" end just as much.)
From: John
At the risk of being being seen as someone desperately trying to save face in the midst of all these great examples of hands-on experience directly countering my point...
I still think a good option is to acquire a decent spare binocular to have handy for those times when lending is appropriate.
But I especially like Dea's and Curt's advice regarding birding adventures with young children. More important to just get out and have an adventure than worry if you've got the right equipment.
From Fred:
Right on Curt! Kids will be kids and a happy kid is one who discovers how to have fun on their own. Like Adam Ant said in their song…”It’s so sad… when you’re young… to be told…you’re having fun”. I’ve seen way too many people buy the most expensive stuff for kids and then get all shocked and depressed when “junior” decides he’d rather play with the box the thing came in! I’m speaking in general of course and there is always room for the exceptional “budding” birder but childhood interests change too frequently to warrant the expense.
Buying a child a $500 bow does not necessarily make a world-class archer…I wonder how much Tiger’s dad spent on Tiger’s first set of clubs? Or…Eddie Van Halen’s first guitar? Hmmm
From: curt
I recall taking my first daughter out to Point Mouille in the winter (back in my survey days when I could drive there), and very excitedly getting a Snowy Owl in the scope and showing her. I had the impression she thought she was looking at a picture of some kind. If she couldn't see the bird with the naked eye, it was just too abstract. She had no excitement what-so-ever. I'm not sure if she was 3 or 4 at the time though. I know that my current 4 year old loves binoculars, but generally prefers to look through them backwards. Its much funnier that way. I am on the market for bins for her, I think, but I believe I will go for something like 4X and as wide angle and bright as possible. Then, if she sees a Robin or a Blue Jay, (birds she can identify) in the yard and wants to show me, she'll actually be able to do it herself.
I have never found it worthwhile to struggle to show a young kid a bird. My older daughters have seen so many cool birds, but they remember pretty much only the birds they discovered themselves. They do remember the trips. My 17 year old daughter remembers being small and having me carry her to the van in her jammies at 5 in the morning for a drive to Sarnia in an October storm, still remembers the Tim Hortons. She has no recollection of the adult Sabine's Gull, or the Pomarine Jaeger. To a young kid a mallard and a King eider are exactly the same thing: a duck, except a Mallard is better because they can know it.
For the most part, my kids like to go birding with me, they love nature and the outdoors, but they don't give a crap about identifying birds.
Just my 2 cents
From: Deaver
My experience with 3rd and 4th graders (walking through the Arb, all with very small field of view binoculars that they could hold and that fit them and were light-weight enough to carry easily) is that they were far more excited just being outside and seeing birds that you can see without binoculars (hawks,cranes, vultures, herons, ducks, large flocks of Cedar Waxwings and woodpeckers, etc) than they were about focusing binoculars on a fast moving small passerine. Probably because the binoculars were not too good and had such a small field of view. Though I cannot put my hands on Laura Erickson's book about birding with kids at this moment, I think that she says that she doesn't usually use binoculars with very young "birders". But kids want binoculars around their neck if you have them so get something light and that you won't feel bad if they get used infrequently. Young children will pick up on your excitement about birds and that will drive their interest the most. Almost any article about finding the right binoculars talks about "fit" and for kids, that is very small but also constantly changing as they grow. What I wouldn't do is spend lots of money. Optics are not the prime thing. For great close up views get a step stool for your scope when you are using it so you and your young birding companion can look through it without constant height readjustment or achy back on your part. Young kids can hop up faster than most of us can bend down and with good instruction can learn how to look thru a scope eyepiece.
In another article by Laura Erickson, she talks about good cheap binoculars for older kids and first time adult birders. Here is her cheapest suggestion. The article was written in 2008, but it will give you an idea ...
Bushnell NatureView Birder 8x40 -- $69.95
Reasonable price and light weight make this model a great choice for beginners, and the price and quality of optics make it a popular choice for groups. In fact, it is one of the only binoculars in this price range with good optics. It's great to pass out on field trips to children and casual wildlife viewers. The Tucson Audubon Nature Shop has sold it in quantity to a tour leader in the Grand Canyon and also to a world-famous health resort in Tucson.
I suspect others out there have some personal experience with kids and grandkids and I look forward to hearing what they have to say.
Been gone ...
Sadly I have not published for some time! Been busy! Also might just say I have been overwhelmed. So it goes. I will try to do better!
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